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Engineering the Future of Civil Engineering

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Engineering the Future of Civil Engineering Raising the Bar through Education and Licensure – PowerPoint PPT presentation

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Title: Engineering the Future of Civil Engineering


1
Engineering the Future of Civil Engineering
Raising the Bar through Education and Licensure
2
Putting 10 pounds of stuff in a 5-pound bag.
  • What's wrong with ASCE's new policy on
    engineering education, what's right about it, and
    what might we do about it?

3
Todays Schedule
  1. Review ASCE Revised Policy 465
  2. How it came about whats good about it
  3. Whats wrong with it
  4. Perkins ideas

4
ASCE Policy 465
ADOPTED OCTOBER 1998 The American Society of
Civil Engineers (ASCE) supports the concept of
the Masters degree as the First Professional
Degree for the practice of civil engineering at a
professional level.
ADOPTED OCTOBER 2001 The American Society of
Civil Engineers (ASCE) supports the concept of
the Masters degree or Equivalent as a
prerequisite for licensure and the practice of
civil engineering at a professional level.
5
Non-Terminal Graduate Degree (for Holders of
ABET-Accredited BSCE)
30 semester credits of acceptable graduate level
course work beyond that required for the
baccalaureate degree
6
History Is This a New Issue?
Is it not time we should agree that a
professional man woman cannot be produced in
four years, but that an accredited civil
engineering training must be definitely post
graduate, with a broad undergraduate training as
a pre-requisite? Carlton S. Proctor, 1932 (ASCE
President 1952)
7
ASCE EDUCATION CONFERENCES
1979
1985
1990
1974
1995
1960
Discussion of formal education
beyond baccalaureate degree
Image Compensation Public Health, Safety,
Welfare
8
2. Motivations for Change
Compensation
Slippage
Reduction in Credits
Professional Skills Development
Leadership Preparation
Broader Formal Education
Appeal To Youth
Changing Systems
Management by Non-Engineers
9
Slippage
10
Once a Leader . . .
CE is a Profession with a 4-Year Degree
CE is a Learned Art
1800 1900
1816-25 Erie Canal is First Engineering School
Law 1- 3 years Medicine 1-4 years
11
A Leader No Longer
9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0
Medicine
Law
Architecture
Pharmacy
Accounting
Years of Formal Education
Occupational Therapy
Civil Engineering
Civil Engineering
1900
1920
1950
1980
2000
2010
12
Reduction in Credit Hours
13
Trend in Reduced Total Credit-Hours
150
140
Credits
130
120
1925
1950
1975
2000
Year
14
Compensation
15
Perceived Value Starting GS Grades
Doctor
Dentist
Lawyer
Architect
Occupational Therapist
Pharmacist
Accountant
Optometrist
Civil Engineer
16
Median GS Grades 1967 1997
Medicine
15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8
15 14 13 12 11 10
Dentist
Lawyer
Civil Engr
Civil Engr
Median General Schedule Grade
Accountant
Pharmacy
Optometrist
O. T.
Nurse
1967
1997
Occupational Therapist
17
Average Yearly Starting Salaries 1990-2000 (NACE)
Curriculum 1990 2000 Change Change
Curriculum 1990 2000 Change in Increase
Civil Engineering 28,136 37,932 9,796 35
Accounting 26,391 36,710 10,319 39
Occupational Therapy 25,644 43,500 17,856 70
Pharmacy 36,728 64,717 27,989 76
National Association of Colleges Employers
18
Leadership Preparation
19
Management by Non-Engineers
20
Management by Non-Engineers
State Secretaries of Departments of
Transportation
21
Broader Formal Education
22
From Mann, 1918
  • But that, "engineering education needed
    curricular integration and a health dose of
    managerial and "'humanistic' courses" because
    "ultimately the engineer is " the creator of
    machines and the interpreter of their human
    significance."
  • He thought it was great that some universities
    could put "administrative" (management) courses
    in their curriculum.

23
  • 1944, ASCE and predecessor of ASEE found
  • "Civil engineering graduates of the previous
    decade were deficient in their ability to
    communicate orally and in writing and had little
    interest in public affairs?

24
Appeal to Youth
25
Declining Appeal to Youth
   
2000 Sample size 1000 high school students,
1174 college students
26
Changing Systems
27
Professional Skills Development
28
SUMMARY Motivations for Change
Compensation
Slippage
Reduction in Credits
Professional Skills Development
Leadership Preparation
Broader Formal Education
Appeal To Youth
Changing Systems
Management by Non-Engineers
29
ASCE Policy 465 (Adopted by the BOD on October 9,
2001)
The American Society of Civil Engineers supports
the concept of the Masters degree or Equivalent
as a prerequisite for licensure and the practice
of civil engineering at a professional level.
30
Masters or Equivalent (MOE)
  • PURPOSE Increase breadth depth of formal
    education
  • FLEXIBILITY
  • Choice of focus
  • Choice of timing
  • Choice of access
  • QUALITY Maintain rigor

31
Engineering MOEs (for Holders of ABET-Accredited
BSCE)
  1. MEngr or MS in CIVIL ENGINEERING
  2. MEngr or MS in OTHER ENGINEERING
  3. PhD in CIVIL ENGINEERING
  4. PhD in OTHER ENGINEERING

32
Possible Non-Engineering MOEs (for Holders of
ABET-Accredited BSCE)
  1. MS in SCIENCE
  2. MS in ARCHITECTURE
  3. MS in CITY URBAN PLANNING
  4. MASTER of BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION MASTER OF
    PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION
  5. PhD in SCIENCE

33
The Board has established the -- Task
Committee on the Academic Prerequisites for
Professional Practice (TCAP3)
4. Implementation
34
4. Implementation
TCAP3 Committee
(practitioners, academics, younger members)
  • Jeff Russell (Chair)
  • Stu Walesh (Vice-Chair)
  • Rich Anderson
  • Norm Buehring
  • Angela Duncan
  • John Durrant
  • Jon Esslinger
  • Gerry Galloway
  • Brook Maples
  • Brian Parsons
  • Bobby Price
  • Tom Lenox

35
When?
  • Will not happen overnight.
  • Will require cooperative effort.
  • (Accountants have 20 year plan for 150 credits
    for CPA)

36
Summary
  • HISTORY we have been here before.
  • MOTIVATIONS FOR CHANGE we need to move ahead.
  • ASCE POLICY 465 we have more specificity.
  • IMPLEMENTATION we, including a broad set of
    stakeholders, have a lot of important work ahead
    of us.

37
End of ASCE Slides
  • They made a good case.
  • Whats wrong with it
  • Perkins ideas

38
Non-Terminal Graduate Degree (for Holders of
ABET-Accredited BSCE)
30 semester credits of acceptable graduate level
course work beyond that required for the
baccalaureate degree
39
Right
  • 120 credits is inadequate for the professional
    practice of CE.

Wrong
  • Policy adds 30 credits to the 140 credit degree
    as well.
  • Does not define what credits need be added.

40
Lets look at those additional credits
  • Practical matter of implementation

41
Avoid Controversy
42
Directions
43
From UAF CEE Advisory Board
44
(No Transcript)
45
What the Board said
46
(No Transcript)
47
Needed Education
48
But
  • Even 138 credit BS
  • Lacks sufficient technical courses
  • For professional practice

49
CE Sub-disciplines
  • Structures
  • Geotech
  • Water
  • Environmental
  • Transportation
  • Construction

50
Extra Courses Required
51
Extra Courses Required - Environmental
  • Environmental 12 (already)
  • Chemical, biological, and physical process (6-9)
  • Water chemistry and treatment (3)
  • Solid waste (3),
  • Pollution control (3) and
  • Laws (3)
  • Total 15 21 more

52
Extra Courses Required - Construction
  • Cost estimating (3),
  • CE constructions (3),
  • Project management (3),
  • Contract law (3),
  • Human Resources, Labor Law (3) plus
  • Geotech or structures (3-6).
  • Total 15-18 more credits

53
So we have
54
Not 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag
How about 15 pounds of stuff in a 10 pound bag?
55
Why change is hard?
  • Always is.
  • Need motivation for any change to happen.
  • Lets look at motivation of interested parties.

56
Motivation of Students
  • Can get good job with current degree
  • Full-time two-year MS does not pay
  • Economics deceptive
  • Based on 1999 NSPE salary survey

57
(No Transcript)
58
Full-time MS
  • Two year MS paid 20K/year for two years, then
    starts at 43.7K, their third year post BS.
  • BS for same times is paid, 38k, 41k, then 43.4k
    for their third year.
  • Over 15 years post BS, the MS is about 8 worse
    off, NPV at i 8

59
Part-time MS
  • Get MS at night
  • Economics depends completely on valuation of free
    time.
  • At 20/hr, their rate of pay, it is not
    economical
  • At 13/hr, it is same as BS.
  • Must value your free time at less than 13/hr for
    MS at night to pay.

60
Motivation of Employers
  • Contrast with dentists
  • Each new dentist is a direct economic threat to
    practicing dentists
  • Pays to increase qualifications, raise the bar
  • Most engineers are employees of other engineers
  • Why create labor shortage
  • If we train on the job, they are ours

61
Motivation of University
  • University does not recognize engineering as a
    learned profession
  • Does not consider engineering college or school
    to be a professional school different than
    Anthropology Department.

62
Motivation of Engineering Faculty
  • Most have never had significant engineering
    employment outside of academia
  • No rewards for teaching or professional service
    by faculty
  • Some by administration, not faculty
  • Faculty rewards are for research and publication
  • Professional employment, i.e., summers or
    consulting, is held in contempt

63
Motivation of Engineering Faculty, cont.
  • No desire to expand enrollments beyond minimum
  • Generally lack resources to teach what is
    required now
  • Increasing offering frequency would require more
    resources.

64
Motivation of Administrators
  • Would like to see enrollments increase
  • But,
  • First to increase requirements will loose
    students to departments/colleges/states that have
    lower requirements.
  • CPAs proved this.

65
Motivation of Professional Societies
  • Would like to see prestige of profession
    increased
  • But are convinced that their education was
    adequate
  • When I was an new engineer
  • Firms will consider competitive position

66
AELS Board
  • Can get PE with no engineering degree now.
  • ABET accredited B.S. degree in engineering
    technology
  • Non-ABET accredited B.S. degree in engineering
  • Course work in ABET accredited engineering degree
    curriculum - no degree (course work must include
    a minimum of three years of credit hours in an
    engineering curriculum (Huh?)

67
And more
  • ABET
  • Stopped separate accreditation of five-year
    degrees long ago
  • ABET 2000 is moving in different direction
  • NCEES
  • Will sell as many exams either way.

68
Lack of Motivation
  • Students
  • Employers
  • Universities
  • License Boards
  • Societies

69
Nobody said this would be easy, or
non-controversial
70
For new degree requirements to ever happen
  • Must define what we want , and
  • What the public health and safety require.
  • Must have system so that students get higher
    starting salaries
  • Students must be worth more to employers
  • Profession must demand

71
Heres something that might work
72
Higher Math
  • CE at UAF currently requires 135 credits
  • Typical liberal arts graduate, 120 credits in
    four years. 150 for masters
  • So we are half way to a masters already.
  • Add the 5 to 7 more courses and we are over 150
    credits.
  • 5 courses is one semester.

73
So, both
  • Requirements for discipline-specific courses, and
  • University credits for MS can be met in one extra
    semester.

74
Add value
  • Add 2 summer internship courses
  • list of topics
  • discussion and
  • industry advisor

75
See NCARB IDP
  • National Council of Architectural Registration
    Boards
  • Intern Development Program

76
 
77
For 3-credits
  • Meet in fall
  • present data
  • interact with other student
  • fill in gaps.

78
Make all design courses into 600-level graduate
courses
  • Stack all 400-level design courses,
  • CE 425/625
  • Add professional content
  • Stacked course would add material on
    communications, human element, public reaction,
    etc.
  • May not directly relate to course content
  • 5 to 10 hours, max.

79
Professional
  • Require they pass the Civil EIT and
  • Take the PE
  • must pass for professional degree
  • Several state permit taking the PE immediately
    after graduation from a four-year degree
  • (Note, this is very different than getting the
    license, for which you still need the 3 or 4
    years of experience.)

80
Academic Deal
  • Leave current four-year degree on books, just
    as it is.
  • Add a 120-credit non-ABET degree, perhaps, BS in
    engineering science.
  • Student opting for the MS will get the 120-credit
    degree in passing.
  • That starts the clock on the MS, admission to
    graduate standing.
  • The counting of the 30 post-BS credits.

81
  • Probably want 36 credits, post-BS
  • for 156 total.

82
Increased Value
  • Student get masters in 5 months, so economics
    changes,
  • with only MS differential
  • probably favorable
  • With summer jobs, increase starting salaries 5
    or more
  • Likewise having passed the PE exam
  • Current 4 year students take 4.5 years
  • Typical 4.5 years will take 5

83
Whats in the future?
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