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If God, why evil?


Said Dr. Carl F. H. Henry, In one of my last street meetings, during my college years, a heckler kept shouting, Where did Cain get his wife? When I could ... – PowerPoint PPT presentation

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Title: If God, why evil?

If God, why evil? How can a loving God send
people to Hell? What about those who have never
heard of Jesus? Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan
god myths? Hasnt science disproven the Genesis
story? What about all the other gospels of
Jesus? Isnt the Old Testament God ruthless and
cruel? Whats wrong with gay marriage? Isnt
Christianity demeaning to women? How can there be
only one way to God?
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
THE QUESTION Isnt Jesus just a copy of other
pagan god myths? There were lots of other
dying/rising god figures in many other religions
before Him, so didnt the Bible writers just
apply all of those to Jesus?
Why should we consider the stories of Osiris,
Dionysus, Adonis, Attis, Mithras, and the other
pagan mystery saviors as fables, yet come across
essentially the same story told in a Jewish
context and believe it to be the biography of a
carpenter from Bethlehem? Timothy Freke/
Peter Gandy, The Jesus Mysteries Nothing in
Christianity is original. Dan Brown, The Da
Vinci Code, 232. The Jesus Mysteries was a
very important book for me in leaving
Christianity Skeptic Forum Post
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Produced by Peter Joseph real name is James
Coyman. Use biblical pseudonym to help
credibility and protect himself. Watched millions
of times and purports to have 40,000 new people
view it each day.
Horus according to Zeitgeist
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Horus myths according to facts and history
  • Horus was born to Isis no mention in history of
    her being called Mary
  • Mary is our anglicized form of real name
    Miryam or Miriam
  • Isis not a virgin widow of Osiris who conceived
    Horus with Osiris
  • Horus born during month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), not
    Dec 25th
  • Dec 25th celebration of Christs birth did not
    occur until 4th century and linked to Winter
    solstice celebration. Bible never assigns birth
    date to Christ
  • No record of three kings visiting Horus at birth
  • Kings didnt visit Christ at His birth magi
    (king makers) did. Bible never states the number
    of magi that came
  • Horus not a savior in any shape or form
  • No account records Horus being a child teacher at
    age 12
  • Horus not baptized. Only account of Horus and
    water incident described in one story of Horus
    being torn to pieces, with Iris requesting the
    crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was
    placed into
  • Horus did not have a ministry
  • Horus did not have 12 disciples. According to the
    Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that
    were followers and some indications of 16 human
    followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths
    that went into battle with him

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Horus myths according to facts and history
  • No account of Horus being betrayed by a friend
  • Horus did not die by crucifixion.
  • Zeitgeist pegs Horus account at 3,000 B.C., long
    before crucifixion was practiced
  • Various accounts have Horus being dismembered by
    Set and his bodyparts being scattered throughout
    the earth. Others combine Horus and Osiris
    together and him being torn apart and thrown into
    a river
  • Horus did not die a death for others as Jesus did
  • Horus not buried for three days
  • Horus not resurrected. No account of Horus
    coming out of the grave with the body he went in
    with. Some accounts have Horus/Osiris being
    brought back to life by Isis and going to be the
    lord of the underworld.
  • Left eye of Horus gouged out, which supposedly
    explained why the moon, which it represented, was
    so weak compared to the sun. It was also said
    that during a new-moon, Horus had become blinded
    and was titled Mekhenty-er-irty (m?nty r ?r.ty
    'He who has no eyes'), while when the moon became
    visible again, he was re-titled Khenty-irty (?nty
    r ?r.ty 'He who has eyes').

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
So whos telling the truth here?
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
"But examine everything carefully hold fast to
that which is good" (1 Thessalonians
521) Examine Dokimazo Prove
Sources for Zeitgeist
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Avoid genetic fallacy consider the source
still valid to examine
The key source for Zeitgeist
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
  • Real name D. Murdock Acharya means guru or
  • BA, liberal arts Classics, Greek Civilization,
    from Franklin and Marshall College.
  • Quoted verbatim in Zeitgeist
  • Books published by Adventures Unlimited Press
    (also publishes books on time travel, the
    existence of werewolves, and the lost city of
  • Work not touched by one reputable publishing house

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Other claims and facts regarding Acharya S
  • Believes Jesus never existed (a view shared by no
    New Testament scholar)
  • All the gospels not penned until after AD 150 (a
    view shared by no New Testament scholar)
  • Asserts all of Pauls letters are forgeries
  • Says no reliable external sources exist to
    testify about Jesus
  • Believes astrology and the zodiac was a key
    factor in both the Old and New Testament.
    However, Scripture forbids astrology (Deut. 419)
    plus Genesis was written around 1,000 B.C. with
    the actual events having occurred even earlier.
    History shows that the division of the
    stars/constellations into the 12 zodiacal signs
    did not occur until the Babylonians made the
    divisions around the fifth century B.C. so the
    timing is off

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
  • Quotes Adolf Hitler as saying that it was his
    Christian convictions which led him to attempt to
    exterminate the Jews. Source is The Womans
    Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets!
  • Makes many claims such as the story of Lazarus
    rising from the dead being an Egyptian myth
    without sources (or uses secondary sources)

I read Acharyas books and enjoyed them. If you
read the feedback in the Emails I have loved
section on her website, youll encounter a number
of people who have benefited from her books they
stopped believing in Christ. Skeptic forum post
Who is Gerald Massey?
  • Born in England 1828-1907
  • Not a trained/learned archaeologist or
    Egyptologist, but a poet
  • Asserted that Christianity borrowed its religion
    from Egypt myth
  • Uses as key source of evidence Toledeth Jeshu,
    "Book of the Lineage of Jesus, a widely
    discredited historical source (dated around 6th
    century) that is sometimes used to prove that
    Jesus never actually existed
  • Asserts many things in writings without sources
    or references
  • Dr. W. Gasque, Ph.D., (Manchester, Harvard),
    investigated Massey (among others like him) with
    learned Egyptologists I sent an email to twenty
    leading Egyptologists in Canada, USA, UK,
    Australia, Germany, and Austria

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
  • That the god Horus is "an Egyptian Christos, or
    Christ.... He and his mother, Isis, were the
    forerunners of the Christian Madonna and Child,
    and together they constituted a leading image in
    Egyptian religion for millennia prior to the
    Gospels The responding scholars were unanimous
    in dismissing the suggested etymologies for Jesus
    and Christ.

Who is Gerald Massey?
  • Developed strong interest in psychic phenomena
    between the years 1862 and 1877 and wrote a book
    on spiritualism in 1871
  • Began lecturing on mesmerism (medical quackery
    developed in the 18th century that deals with
    hypnosis induced through animal magnetism), the
    mystical interpretation of the Bible, and
  • Began contributing articles to Lucifer
    magazine, which was started by a woman named H.
    P. Blavatsky, who was one of the forerunners of
    the theosophical society, an occultic
    organization that believed (among other things),
    Lucifer was the light bearer for all and equated
    him with Jesus
  • After this immersion, Massey began to do his
    study of Egyptology and found all the supposed
    parallels between Jesus and other pagan gods

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Key question On one side, we have folks like
Acharya S and Gerald Massey making one set of
claims and on the other side, experts (both
secular and Christian) debunking their claims via
scholarly work and historical fact. Who do you
choose to believe?
Zeitgeist Producer Fight Back
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Can you imagine the field day Christianity
bashers would have if we used such an argument?
Yes, there were many permutations of Jesus over
thousands of years that dont validate our claims
for Him, but you should still swallow the
portrayal of Him that were offering to you
its for real!
Zeitgeist Producer Fight Back
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
So just give us one ancient Egyptian source that
says Horus was crucified, died, was buried for 3
days, and was resurrected just one! And as for
the Bible, the accounts Christians hold fast to
are anchored in space/time history, all written
during the lifetimes of the eyewitnesses,
preserved in 24,000 manuscript copies, and all
portray Jesus the exact same way.
Krishna according to Zeitgeist
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Krishna myths according to facts and history
  • 8th child of Devaki (not a virgin) who conceived
    Krishna from hairs off the head of Vishnu being
    placed in her womb. Eight incarnation of Vishnu
  • No mention of star in the east
  • Krishna married to wife Radha. Usually depicted
    as teacher and young cowherd who has lively
    relationships with cow maidens
  • Gained victory over a demon king
  • Usually colored black or dark blue and plays a
  • Krishna killed by an arrow from a hunter who
    accidentally shot him in the heal ("A fierce
    hunter of the name of Jara then came there,
    desirous of deer. The hunter, mistaking
    Krishna, who was stretched on the earth in high
    Yoga, for a deer, pierced him at the heel with a
    shaft and quickly came to that spot for capturing
    his prey." Mahabharata, Book 16, 4)
  • Krishna died and ascended no resurrection back
    in this life ("He the hunter touched the feet
    of Krishna. The high-souled one comforted him
    and then ascended upwards, filling the entire
    welkin with splendour... Krishna reached his
    own inconceivable region." Mahabharata, Book 16,
    4 )
  • There are no Indian gods portrayed as
  • Dr. Edwin Bryant, Professor of Hinduism at
    Rutgers University, scholar on Hinduism. In 2001,
    he translated the Bhagavata-Purana (life of
    Krishna) for Penguin World Classics author of In
    Quest of Historical Krishna.
  • What Jewish settlements in India have been found
    or copies of Hindu documents in Israel that the
    Jews could have copied and used?

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Attis according to Zeitgeist
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Attis myths according to facts and history
  • Many wide ranging accounts of Attis
  • Not virgin born woman Nana puts fruit in her lap
    that came from a tree started by Zeus seed and
    supposedly has Attis from that
  • Not crucified. One account has Attis being
    driven insane by his lover after which he
    castrates himself and he does bleeds to death
    (but not by crucifixion) in the forest (remaining
  • No resurrection. Cybele the great mother
    goddess asks Zeus to preserve Attis and he does
    with the only signs being that his hair continues
    to grow and his little finger moves continuously.
    Only supposed resurrection stories of Attis come
    AD 150, long after the start of Christianity
  • Secular scholars admit that Attis cult modified
    itself after Christianity and parroted Christian

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Mithras according to Zeitgeist
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Mithras myths according to facts and history
  • Born out of a solid rock
  • Emerged from rock carrying a knife and torch and
    wearing a Phrygian cap
  • Battled first with the sun and then a primeval
    bull, thought to be the first act of creation.
    Mithras killed the bull, which then became the
    ground of life for the human race
  • Very popular with the Roman military military
    cult that excluded women
  • Birth was celebrated on Dec. 25th along with
    Winter solstice
  • Not mentioned as being a great teacher
  • No mention of 12 disciples. Possible that the
    idea that Mithras had 12 disciples came from a
    mural in which Mithras is surrounded by twelve
    signs and personages of the Zodiac (two of whom
    are the moon and the sun), and even this imagery
    is POST Christian
  • No bodily resurrection. We are told he completes
    his earthly mission then is taken to paradise in
    a chariot alive and well. Tertullian did write
    about Mithras believers re-enacting resurrection
    scenes, but he wrote about this occurring well
    after New Testament times.
  • No evidence that Mithras was ever called the
    Good Shepherd or any other title attributed to
  • Mithras worship flourished after Christianity and
    not before it

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Fallacy of the false cause
The fallacy committed when an argument mistakenly
attempt to establish a causal connection.
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
What if I told you a story about a British ocean
liner that was about 800 feet long, weighed over
60,000 tons, and could carry about 3,000
passengers? The ship had a top cruising speed of
24 knots, had three propellers, and about 20
lifeboats. And what if I told you that this ocean
liner hit an iceberg on its maiden voyage in the
month of April, tearing an opening in the
starboard side forward portion of the ship, and
sinking along with about 2,000 passengers? What
does that sound like?
It is a fictional story described in Robertsons
book called the Wreck of the Titan or
Futility (Buccaneer Books, Cutchogue, New York,
1898). This book was written fourteen years
BEFORE the Titanic disaster took place, and
several years before the construction was even
begun on the Titanic. In the 1880s, the well
known English journalist, W. T. Stead also wrote
an account of a sinking ocean liner in the
mid-Atlantic, and by 1882 had added the detail
that an iceberg would be the cause of the
Composite Fallacy
The fallacy of Composition is committed when a
conclusion is drawn about a whole based on the
features of its constituents when, in fact, no
justification provided for the inference.
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
  • Zeitgeist and others like them combine features
    from many different religions to make it appear
    as if one Mystery Religion existed from which
    Christianity drew from. This is untrue.
  • The mystery religion par excellence has never
    existed, and quite certainly did not in the first
    century A.D., Gunter Wagner, German scholar
  • The mysteries were always syncretisticready, and
    even eager, to combine with other religions. This
    was something that Christians always rejected,
    believing that they alone had the full truth
    revealed to them by Christ.

Terminology Fallacy
The terminological fallacy occurs when terms are
redefined to prove a point, when in fact such
terms do not mean the same thing when compared to
their source
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
  • Baptism
  • Ministry
  • Savior
  • Resurrection

Other Considerations
  • The many archaeological details confirming New
    Testament accounts.
  • The historically confirmed references that run
    alongside the life of Christ.
  • The early dating of the gospel accounts, during
    the lifetime of the eyewitnesses.
  • The deep moral convictions of the authors and
    their commitment to truth.
  • The accounts of the apostles going to their
    deaths for what they had seen.
  • The typology of Joseph and Jesus (used by the
    Zeitgeist film to supposedly debunk the actual
    existence of Christ) is very well known and
    accepted by conservative Christian scholars as a
    foreshadowing of the first coming of Jesus.
  • All the good produced by Christianity (see How
    Christianity Changed the World by Dr. Alvin
    Schmidt), which are brushed aside by Zeitgeist
    with only the crusades and other like events
    being highlighted. This is in keeping with the
    current militant atheist mindset of there only
    being violence in religion. Of course, violence
    done in the name of atheism/naturalism is not

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Evidence from Pauls Encounters
The people of that day were acquainted with the
Greek and Roman gods "When the crowds saw what
Paul had done, they raised their voice, saying in
the Lycaonian language, The gods have become
like men and have come down to us. And they
began calling Barnabas, Zeus, and Paul, Hermes,
because he was the chief speaker. The priest of
Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city,
brought oxen and garlands to the gates, and
wanted to offer sacrifice with the crowds." (Acts
1411-13) And yet when Paul encountered very
knowledgeable philosophers, we find this
reaction He seems to be a proclaimer of
strange deities,because he was preaching Jesus
and the resurrection. And they took him and
brought him to the Areopagus, saying, May we
know what this new teaching is which you are
proclaiming? For you are bringing some strange
things to our ears so we want to know what these
things mean." (Acts 1718-20) The point If
dying and rising gods were aplenty in the first
century, why, when the apostle Paul preached
Jesus rising from the dead in Acts 17, did the
Epicureans and Stoics not remark, Ah, just like
Horus and Mithras? The same would be true of
Pauls discourse in Acts 26 Festus, a Roman (who
would have known about the Roman military Mithras
cult), said Paul was out of his mind for
preaching the resurrection.
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Final Thoughts
  • Jesus birth, life, and death were prophesied
    hundreds of years in advance in the Old
    Testament, which was written by monotheistic Jews
    who certainly would not have borrowed aspects
    from pagan cults for their work. The person and
    life of Jesus is nothing more than a historically
    verified unfolding of what had been predicted by
    the prophets of the Old Testament years before.
  • C. S. Lewis was a great student of mythology and
    said this regarding supposed parallels between
    Christ and other pagan gods The old myth of the
    Dying God, without ceasing to be myth, comes down
    from the heaven of legend and imagination to the
    earth of history We must not be nervous about
    parallels and Pagan Christs they ought to be
    there it would be a stumbling block if they
    werent. (Myth Became Fact in God in the Dock)

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
So What?
Whats the point of refuting these false claims
about Jesus?
1. Welcome to the Spiritual War
" But false prophets also arose among the people,
just as there will also be false teachers among
you, who will secretly introduce destructive
heresies, even denying the Master who bought
them, bringing swift destruction upon
themselves." (2 Peter 21)
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
" Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test
the spirits to see whether they are from God,
because many false prophets have gone out into
the world. By this you know the Spirit of God
every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has
come in the flesh is from God and every spirit
that does not confess Jesus is not from God this
is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you
have heard that it is coming, and now it is
already in the world." (1 John 41-3)
"Who is the liar but the one who denies that
Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the
one who denies the Father and the Son." (1 John
"For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom
we have not preached, or you receive a different
spirit which you have not received, or a
different gospel which you have not accepted, you
bear this beautifully." (2 Corinthians 114)
2. Belief in the Real Jesus Matters!
He who has the Son has the life he who does not
have the Son of God does not have the life. 1
John 512 He who believes in Him is not
judged he who does not believe has been judged
already, because he has not believed in the name
of the only begotten Son of God. John
318 And there is salvation in no one else for
there is no other name under heaven that has been
given among men by which we must be saved. Acts
412 Jesus said to him, I am the way, and the
truth, and the life no one comes to the Father
but through Me. John 146 Therefore I said to
you that you will die in your sins for unless
you believe that I am He, you will die in your
sins. (John 824) No Jesus No Salvation
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
3. Doctrine Matters The Virgin Birth
CNN talk show host Larry King was asked what one
person he would most like to interview and what
one question he would ask them. King replied he
would most like to interview Jesus Christ, and
the question he would ask him would be Were you
really born of a virgin? When asked why that
question, King replied Because the answer to
that question would interpret all of history for
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Jesus had to be born of a virgin. He had to be
fully man to redeem mankind, but yet He had to be
fully God to be the perfect Lamb of God and also
avoid the disease of sin that attaches to
everyone born of a natural union between a
husband and wife. There is no real reason any
mythological god would need to be virgin born.
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and
bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. He
will be great and will be called the Son of the
Most High and the Lord God will give Him the
throne of His father David and He will reign
over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom
will have no end. Mary said to the angel, How
can this be, since I am a virgin?" (Luke
3. Doctrine Matters The Death of Christ
None of the supposed pagan Christs died for
anyone else or anyones sin. Even Gandhi
admitted that the cross of Jesus Christ stands
unique in all of human history
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the
just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to
God, having been put to death in the flesh, but
made alive in the spirit" (1 Peter 318) "But
God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that
while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, having now been justified by His
blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God
through Him." (Romans 58-9) "For I delivered
to you as of first importance what I also
received, that Christ died for our sins according
to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and
that He was raised on the third day according to
the Scriptures," (1 Corinthians 153-4)
3. Doctrine Matters The Resurrection
The German chancellor, Konrad Adeneur, once asked
Billy Graham this question Mr.Graham, do you
really believe that Jesus Christ rose from the
dead? Billy Graham somewhat taken aback by the
question said, Sir, if I did not believe in the
resurrection of Jesus Christ, I would have no
gospel left to preach. And he said Conrad
Adeneur paused, walked over to the end of the
room, looked out of the window, at the post-war
ruins and said, Mr. Graham, outside of the
resurrection of Jesus Christ, I know of no other
hope for mankind.
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
"But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not
even Christ has been raised and if Christ has
not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your
faith also is vain. Moreover we are even found to
be false witnesses of God, because we testified
against God that He raised Christ, whom He did
not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ
has been raised and if Christ has not been
raised, your faith is worthless you are still in
your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep
in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in
Christ in this life only, we are of all men most
to be pitied." (1 Corinthians 1513-19)
  • It goes without saying that alleged parallels
    which are discovered by pursuing such methodology
    evaporate when they are confronted with the
    original texts. In a word, one must beware of
    what have been called, parallels made plausible
    by selective description. Bruce Metzger, New
    Testament Scholar, Princeton
  • If any influence did occur, it appears to be
    Christianity influencing the pagan religions,
    which is in historical keeping with their
    syncretistic practices, but differed from the
    Jews You are to keep My statutes. You shall not
    breed together two kinds of your cattle you
    shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed,
    nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of
    material mixed together. (Lev. 1919) This
    verse is a physical reminder of a spiritual
    truth you are not to pollute the pure, true, one
    religion God gives with any other religious
  • "Error, indeed, is never set forth in its naked
    deformity, lest being thus exposed, it should at
    once be detected. But it is craftily decked out
    in an attractive dress, so as by its outward
    form, to make it appear to the inexperienced...
    more true than truth itself." - Irenaeus

Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan god myths?
Fiction Vs. Fact
If God, why evil? How can a loving God send
people to Hell? What about those who have never
heard of Jesus? Isnt Jesus just a copy of pagan
god myths? Hasnt science disproven the Genesis
story? What about all the other gospels of
Jesus? Isnt the Old Testament God ruthless and
cruel? Whats wrong with gay marriage? Isnt
Christianity demeaning to women? How can there be
only one way to God?
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