Title: Car Buying Seminar
1Car Buying Seminar
- Tom Lindstrom linds017_at_umn.edu
- China Outreach Ministries
- www.comumn.org
2Outline
- Understanding our assumptions
- Understanding Cars
- Dealing with People
- Dealing with Details
- Inspecting the Car
- Recommendations
3Understanding Our Assumptions
- T/F Test
- What REALLY Matters?
4TRUE / FALSE TEST
- 1. Japanese Cars are the cheapest to drive
- 2. The more I spend purchasing a car, the more
dependable it will be - 3. Finding a reputable dealer is the most
important step - 4. Getting a car is going to relieve a lot of
anxiety about living in the US - 5. Cars with Prior Salvage stamped on the
title should always be avoided - 6. New tires on a car shows it has been cared
for
5Rank the following in order of importance
- Safety
- Make of car (ie Toyota)
- Everything MUST work all the time
- Easy to park, learn to drive, etc.
- Lower anxiety about vandalism, theft, etc.
- Appearance
- Reliability
- Cost of Maintenance
- Gas Mileage
- Ability to impress my friends
- Cheapest price
6What REALLY matters?
- Dependable transportation that doesnt interfere
with your studies - Lower anxiety regarding safety damage to your
car while you learn to drive
7Understanding Cars
- When cheaper means more expensive and saving
money means spending money! - Sweeping Generalizations
- Understanding Wear Cycles
- Choosing a car based on thorough research
- Tools for determining the value of a specific car
8Different Cars for Different People
- For most people, cars are pragmaticjust
transportation
9- But today, cars are increasingly about image,
fulfillment, even personal identity!
10- This discussion will focus on practical cars
- My recommendations will be for cars that are more
simple in design - If you prefer a fancier car, the research methods
shown in this presentation will also help you
find such a car!
11Sweeping Generalizations
- Japanese cars RUST but are typically more
dependable. Repairs sometimes expensive. - European cars are well designed but expensive to
repair, more complicated. Complicated electrical
systems are their death knoll. Motors and bodies
last forever. - American cars have numerous annoying faults, are
not as well designed, but parts and repairs are
readily available. These cars are usually more
practical in design, and there are several that
stand out as very reliable.
12Which car represents the greater value?
- 2007 car with 100k or a 2004 car with 50k?
- Import car in OK/poor shape or a Domestic car in
EXCELLENT condition?
(Normal annual mileage is 12 - 15k per year)
13The Truth about Economy Cars
Rank the following Cars Which one costs 141
to replace the water pump? Which one costs 624
to replace the water pump?
33,000 MSRP
18,000 MSRP
545
624!
46,000 MSRP
10,000 MSRP
141!
322
14Who would think that this car would have the most
expensive repair?
And who would think that you could replace a
water pump on a 46,000 Cadillac for under 150?
Of the cars on the previous page, the Acura would
have the highest rating for dependabilitybut _at_
545 to replace the water pumpyou might want to
think again about purchasing one!
15So what is real economy about?
- Reliability is NOT the same thing as economy!
- Economy is about the bottom linehow much does it
cost to drive a car - What does economical transportation look like?
16Laugh if you want to, but THIS was the cheapest
car I have owned!
1983 Ford Econoline 150
10 mpg, but Very cheap and easy to repair- This
was the best economy car I had for 15 years!
17Understanding Wear Cycles
Repairs 60 - 90k
Repairs beyond 100k
- Tires
- Battery
- Exhaust
- Struts/Shocks
- ATF/Antifreeze change
- Timing Belt
- Alternator
- Water Pump
- Air Conditioning
- Automatic Transmission
Sometimes a car with 100k on it is cheaper to
drive than a comparable vehicle with 60k on it
18The Bottom Line on Economy
- Gas Mileage is only part of the cost of operating
a car - A car considered reliable isnt necessarily the
cheapest to drive - Lower miles on a car do not necessarily mean
less repairs - Knowing your assumptions can lessen your
disappointments
19You probably dont NEED a car after all!
There are other forms of transportation!
20My Suggestions
- Consider a 1000-1500 car for the purposes of
learning to drive - Determine what causes you the most anxiety about
car ownership and try to reduce your exposure to
those risks - Buy a car from a Maintenance NUT
21Why consider this car?
- 1400 for a 91 Accord with 215,000k !
The owner of this car kept meticulous records of
repairs and it drove absolutely like new!
22Or this car?
This car has an excellent engine, its safe, and
it wont matter if you smash it up a little
learning to drive!
23Why start with a cheaper car?
- Most new drivers are very nervous
- Nervous drivers make mistakes
- Mistakes cost , raised insurance premiums for
years to come
Thus, a cheaper car may help you have
less anxiety about driving and save you
24If you want a cheaper car
- Most of the rest of this presentation is only
partly applicable - You will buy based on a limited set of criteria
Will this car help me learn to drive rather
than Do I like being in this carwill it take me
to Yellowstone? etc.
25So where do we start?
- How do I decide what make and model of car to
buy? - How do I know how much I need to spend?
- What is the most bang for the buck in terms of
the usability of any given car?
26If you had time, you might start your research at
the junkyard!
27What can you learn from a junkyard?
Some cars give their owners the Blues
Some cars end up junked sooner than you would
expect
Certain models have consistently defective major
components
28For Example
The day I was here (at the junkyard) I saw 3 or 4
Mazda 626s in this conditionwhy are they there
when they appear to be in great condition and
only five to seven years old?
BAD transmissions!
29Issues that send cars to a Premature Death
Expensive, surprise repair bills
- Repairs for which no parts are available,often
due to defective parts!
When buying a car, how can I minimize my
exposure to the risks of repair bills I cannot
afford?
30Finding the Right Car- Doing your Research!
- Researching the history and
- reliability of specific models
- In the case of the Mazda 626, I found a website
for complaining owners whose transmissions failed
31Obviously, our research has to include sources
that will help us find (and avoid) those lemon
cars!
- Periodical Literature
- Web sites Governmental, Complaint sites,
Consumer Websites, etc - The advice of mechanics, friends, relatives
32Periodicals
- Consumer Reports is a good place to start
33Examples of things inConsumers Reports
- Which cars are the most dependable?
- What new laws or recalls will affect me?
- Complaints and Recommendations
34This chart is from the Consumer Reports Annual
Auto Issue, published each spring
35Millions of readers contribute to the data
collected by Consumer Reports, making their
resources some of the best available for
comparing cars.
36This chart is also A part of the Consumers
Reports Annual Auto issue.
37This chart is a list of recommendations for used
cars that statistically have had a consistently
excellent reputation over the years
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40But Keep it ALL in Perspective
Glenn and I all own vans on this list!!!
41And, Consumer Reports doesnt include
- Costs of maintaining a vehicle
- Costs of typical repairs
- By reporting only reliability data and NOT cost
of maintenance, CR gives a somewhat slanted view
of car ownership
42HenceThe CAR Book
- Compilation of Govern-
- ment data previously
- unavailable to the public
- Focuses on Safety
- Predicts maintenance costs and charts total costs
of ownership including depreciation, etc.
43Examples of helps The CAR book can give
- Summaries of replacement costs for major and
minor components on popular vehicles - Estimates the costs for preventative maintenance
as prescribed by the manufacturers of the new
cars - Complaint charts
- Crash test results
- Depreciation (Use this in your favoryou can
- get a 3 year old car for 60 of its new price!)
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51Where do you find the CAR Book?
- Public libraries
- Ebay
- Direct from publisher through contribution to the
Center for Auto Safety, but only available in
Spring
52WEB searches
- To locate Automobile related websites, try words
such as reliable used cars or automobile
complaints or defective transmission or
defective engine or automobile complaints or
automobile recalls, etc
53What you will find on the Web
- Lots of complaint web-sites, some profane and not
legitimate - Some helpful things
- Some commercial sites, designed to make money off
all information they provide
54Some Helpful Web-sites
- www.samarins.com
- www.carsurvey.org/
- www.recalls.gov
- www.dmv.org
- www.nhtsa.gov
- www.consumerreports.org
55Listener call in Radio shows can help you
understand car problems
- Car Talk national radio show http//www.cartalk.co
m/ - Live mechanic chat for problems with your car on
the web. Humorous radio show! Non technical
evaluations of test drives
56Where to go for advice
- Your Host family
- Trusted people like your advisor, neighbors, COM
staff, etc - Ask around for referrals to a good mechanic if
you pick your mechanic FIRST, and have him
recommend a car, you will always have someone to
repair it! (I will include referrals at the end
of this presentation)
57Are there exceptions is it ever wise to buy a
car your research says to avoid?
- Yes from a trusted friend
- Yes when maintainance records outweigh faults
- Yes when you can accept the faults of a vehicle
- Yes when the bad reputation doesnt apply to your
vehicle (Ford Taurus 3.0 liter)
58Dealing With People
- Finding a Reputable Dealer
- Finding a private party
- Understanding Classified Ads
- Understanding Minnesota Nice
- Negotiating a Sale
59Finding a Reputable Dealer(is that an oxymoron?)
- New Car Dealerships
- Car Lot used car dealerships
60Buying a used car from a New Car Dealership
Have a higher concern for nice cars on their lot
Get business based on name plate of dealership,
not on quality of service or repairs!
Lots of overhead, lots of salespeople means
they have to keep standards up (and prices!)
Get first pick of the used cars at the best prices
61Used Car Lots
Typically have less concern for repeat business
Finding a reputable Used Car Lot is one
thingFinding a good car on such a lot is another!
Nearly ALL the cars here were rejected by New
Car Dealerships for some reason!
62Locating a car from a Private Party
- You may want to buy a car directly from the
person who knows the most about itthe owner! - PP can tell you about repairs done, how the car
was driven, etc. - Buying from a PP often is a rewarding experience
63How do I locate a Private Party who is selling
their car?
- Classified Ads in MN Daily, Tribune, Pioneer
Press, Auto Trader, etc. - Web sites
- Bulletin Boards at local establishments
- Friends/referrals
64Pros Cons of the Classified Ads
- Ads are expensive, so sellers are motivated to
sell quickly! - Lots of competition getting to the right car
before someone else
65Terminology of the Classifieds
- Babied Owner claims vehicle has had all the
TLC of a newborn baby - Sharp Vehicle is attractive overall
- Good runner Usually means the car is ugly, but
dependable - Highway miles Owner is claiming the high miles
show less wear than you would expect normally
since it was Highway miles - Mint Car is in virtually new conditionno flaws
at all - Clean Usually meant to convey the body has no
rust
66Pros and Cons of Web Searches
- Sites like www.carsoup.com have lots of listings
with photos - Slow turnover - Seller has lots of time to wait
for his pricemay be overpriced or need repairs
(look at photo, try to date when the vehicle was
listed)
67Web Sites with Used Car Listings
- www.minneapolis.craigslist.org Fast response
- www.autotrader.com Free Carfax report
- www.cars.com Best/Worst ratings, crash tests
- www.edmunds.com
- www.carsoup.com
- www.automart.com Certified Cars listed
- www.autoextra.com Free VIN check
- www.autoweb.com
- www.automotive.com
- www.usedcars.com
- And believe it or not, EBAY (but be wary)
68EAST MEETS WESTChina vs. Minnesota Nice
Just what is Minnesota Nice?
- Non-interference in the lives of others
- Indirect answers to your questions smothered in
sickly smiles - Better to be a doormat than to upset anyone!
- Saying little or nothing when upset, yet bearing
a grudge for a long time
69I have found a carhow do I determine what it is
worth?
- Carry a NADA guide, available at bookstores
- Check the web www.edmunds.com, www.kbb.com,
www.carsoup.com, newspaper classifieds, Auto
Trader - Be careful to deduct for everything you can in
determining value, and enter the EXACT model - After looking at a few cars you will know their
value, and you may refine your search - It is NOT a criminal act to ask MORE than book
value- some cars are worth more
70How can I do a title search?
- Find the VIN of the vehicle
- www.carfax.com 25 for unlimited checks for 30
days or 20 for a single VIN check - www.autocheck.com (one free check)
71Inspecting the Car
- First Impressions
- Things you can inspect yourself
- Professional Inspection
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72If you are buying a beater to learn to drive,
ignore this, but
- Pay attention to how the car looks to you
- Look for evenness and consistency in the paint,
door gaps, etc. - Check to see that doors, windows, locks all work
(non-functional things can be SO annoying!)
73Things you can check yourself
- Check all VIN numbers to see that they match
(See www.samarins.com for full description of
where VINs are located) - Check www.carfax.com (or similar site) to see if
the car has ever had a Salvage title
74Before Starting the Car
- Lift the hood check fluids
- Inspect Radiator, hoses, belts
75Starting the Car
- Listen to the car start coldthere should be no
unusual sounds from the motor - Look out the rear of the car. There should be no
blue smoke. Some steam is normal for a few
minutes, but not smoke. - After the car warms a little, put the
transmission in R. It should not lag before
engaging.
76Inspect the Tires Abnormal wear can tell
you things about the car the owner may not know!
77Automatic Transmission Fluid
- The fluid should be pink, have little odor
- If the fluid is brown, smell it. Its normal to
have some odor, but it should not smell burnt. - Level of fluid is checked only with car hot, on
level ground
78Note on oils
- Mineral Characteristics 2 / quart Basic
protection for a variety of engines - Not much protection for cold weather start ups
- Fully Synthetic Characteristics 6 / quart
- Fuel economy savingsEnhances engine performance
and powerEnsures engine is protected from wear
and deposit build-upEnsures good cold starting
and warm upGets to moving parts of the engine
quickly - Semi-synthetic Characteristics 4 / quart
- Cold start lubrication protection similar to
full syntheticRoughly three times better at
reducing engine wear over conventional
oilsIncreased oil change intervals -
-
79Cut away view of an engine
- Engine oil is pumped during operation onto
various engine parts - Question How long does it take to pump the oil
from the oil pan up into the engine? - Question How long until the engine reaches its
optimum efficiency?
80What are the advantages of having the car
inspected professionally?
- Pro inspections cost 50 - 80 but give you
something to negotiate withprobably saving you
that much money when arriving at a final price - Pro inspections are VERY thorough
- Probably not necessary for a beater
81A word about Salvage Titles
- Salvage / Prior Salvage stamp vehicles should be
at least 20 cheaper than comparable model - Dont rule out a vehicle with prior salvage
stamped on title, but be careful! - Have the vehicle inspected
82What about safety?
- http//www.safercar.gov/
- But keep in mind when the Government issues a
star rating, it is assuming vehicle crashes with
the same size car it is rating. - Google on www.youtube.com to find crash video of
vehicles you are curious about
83One More Thing
- Since the wear tear on a car varies a LOT based
on how it is driven, have the owner/seller take
you for a ride and see how he handles the car.
Is he hasty when going from Reverse to Drive?
Does he MASH the accelerator and or brakes? - Ask him about the use of the vehicle
84Negotiating a Sale
- You MAY try to get a lower price on the phone,
but the Seller may hang up on you! Asking price
is not usually more than 10-15 higher than
sellers anticipated selling price. - Be careful not to point out things wrong with the
car as though the seller was trying to cheat you!
- Dont be manipulated or pressured to buy. But at
the same time, dont ignore the advice of someone
trying to help!
85Dealing With Details
- What is the procedure for payment?
- Where do we go to transfer the Title?
- What legal issues do I face?
- How much insurance do I need?
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86What is the procedure for payment?
- Most sellers accept a personal check as down
payment. If you do not follow through with the
sale, the money is theirs to keep. - Buyer will return at a later time with Bank Check
for the full amount and Seller returns the
Buyers down payment. - Writing out an agreement may be a good idea.
87Payment Procedure continued
- Alternatively, Buyer and Seller can go together
to the bank to exchange funds - Buyer can carry a check from a bank that he could
sign over to whomever he wishes
88Where do we go to transfer the Title of
Ownership?
- Its primarily in the Sellers interests to go
with the Buyer to insure the Title is properly
transferred. - The Dept. of Motor Vehicle in Minnesota has
several locations for transferring the Title of
Ownership they can be found in the Government
Blue Pages in the front of the phone book - Going together and doing all the signatures in
front of the DMV personnel can save you a lot of
stress should you make a mistake
89Title includes
- Odometer readings
- when issued
- If the car has a Lien
- VIN number
- Owner(s) name/address, etc.
90Be careful filling out the title as any
alterations/changes VOID the title!
- Put your name down in USA order (family name LAST)
91- If you can, fill out the title in the presence of
a DMV official - If your are not able to go together to register,
register online www.mndriveinfo.org (this does
NOT transfer the title but starts the process)
92Recommendations
- Getting Insurance
- Recommended Cars
- Finding a Reputable Mechanic
- Auto Body Repair
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93Insurance
- It is illegal to drive a car on a MN highway
without insurance. You need insurance to pick up
the car you buyand you need the VIN to insure
it. - The liability insurance MN requires is probably
not enough! Consider raising it, at least until
you are a seasoned driver. - You, as driver of your car, are alone responsible
for whatever you hit, regardless of fault and
unless you carry collision coverage, the loss is
yours.
94Choosing Insurance
Because International Students are the riskiest
group to insure and because they have the highest
accident rate due to their unfamiliarity with
cars
- Few companies insure unlicensed drivers
- Those that do offer insurance to this group
charge big bucks! - When you do find insurance, consider collision
coverage in addition to liability
95Understanding the types of Insurance
- Liability only covers damage you do to other
peoples cars and property - Collision adds coverage for damage you do to your
own car - Comprehensive covers damage such as storms,
parking lot scrapes, etc.
96Recommendations
- The following cars are good choices but not your
only choices! - If you are choosing to buy a cheaper car, (1000
- 1500) your choices are narrower and will
depend more on the condition of the car than the
make and modelbut keep the following in mind
97Brand Specific Recommendations
- Practically any Toyota- These cars accept abuse
and neglect much better than most cars - Honda Accord, Civic, etc.- Not Passport
- Mazdas OK- They probably dont last as long as
Toyotas but usually good cars - Nissan- Good, simple cars but not in league with
Honda and Toyota
98Recommendations continued
- Mitsubishi, Suzuki- Only if you get a good price
and low miles - Hyundai In recent years these cars have made big
strides ahead in quality - Subaru- Expensive repairs beyond the 100,000 mile
mark
99High mileage late model off lease cars
- Many components that wear out at a given mileage
are like new- but you still get the depreciation
of an older car - Conclusion these cars are some of the best
values around regardless of brand name
- Often 30 of original MSRP even though only 3 or
4 years old - Rigorous maintenance has been performed
- Body and interior look almost new!
100High Mileage off lease example
- 08 Buick Lacrosse CX MSRP 26,000 - 40,000
- With 30k 20,977
- With 106k 9,900
- (current local listings)
101Cars / things to avoid
- 95-97 Plymouth / Dodge Neon head gasket
- Late 90s Mazda 626 AT
- Late 90s Mitsubishi Galant AT
- GM 2.4 liter 4 cylinder
- Saturn ION
102Cars to Avoid
- Subaru 2.5 liter Phase II motor 1996-2003
- Head gaskets blow, dealer repair 2500 - 3500
(Kuan much cheaper ? ) - No permanent repair of this engine is possible,
reoccurs every 70k
103Cars to Avoid
- Honda Odyssey 2000 -2003
- Faulty transmissions some were replaced under
warranty but owners often have to pay for repairs
up to 5000 to replace - Some owners report repairing transmission twice
- If you find one with a new transmission it
SHOULD be OK
104Issues to be aware of / Honda
- Transmissions- Hondas dont accept abuse its
wise to see how the owner treated his car before
you buy it - Timing Belt Replacement
- On Hondas, replacement intervals are 90 105k
Dealer cost about 1000 on 4 cyl. - If the belt breaks, it can ruin the engine
105Issues to be aware of / Ford
- Ford Focus has had a record number of recalls on
the Ford Focus 2000-2002 - Engine Fires
- Wheel bearing failure, wheel comes off the car
while driving! - Make sure ALL recalls on the vehicle have been
taken care of
106Issues to be aware of / Ford
- Taurus / Windstar history
- Bad 3.8 motors gave the Taurus and Windstars a
bad reputation but cars after 1996 unaffected - Look for 3.0 motor
- Fords mistakes here means YOU can buy the cars
cheaper! (Lousy resale value)
107Specific Cars to look for
108Toyota Camry
- These cars can last 250,000 miles
- Galvanized sheet metal on older ones
- Great resale value
109Chevrolet Prizm / Toyota Corolla
- Prizm is the Corolla with Chevy name
- Economicalshould last 200,000 miles
- Not much to worry about here
110Honda Accord
- Quick, responsive handling
- Very reliable, satisfying ownership
111Honda Civic
- Very economical transportation
- Very, very reliable!
- Highest resale value
112Mazda 3, Protege
113Saturn
- SL pretty good
- ION not so much
- SW average
- L Series not so much
114Hyundai
- Most are average
- Later models are improved greatly
115Scion
- Xb gets rave reviews on www.carsurvey.org
- Xa good
- Xc more mixed reviews
116Less Obvious Recommendations
Cars you might have overlooked ?
117Pontiac Vibe
- Same car as a Toyota Matrix
118Ford Escort / Mercury Tracer
- Cheap, dependable transportation
- EASY to find competent mechanic to work on these
cars - Available 2 door, 4 door, wagon
- Lower purchase and resale value than import
119Buick Regal / Century
- Dependability on a par with import cars
- 3.8 liter motor is one of the best in automotive
history, 3.1 is also good - Depreciates rapidly
- (3 year old value
- is 50 of new- very
- affordable!)
120Chevrolet Prizm
121Chevrolet Corsica / Beretta
- Discontinued in 1997, but if you find one in
decent shape, consider it. 3.1 V6 (avoid the 4
cylinder engine)
122Ford Taurus
- LOW resale value means you can get a newer car
for less money than you thought - 3.0 liter engine is quite good
- Have a mechanic look over the car before you buy
123Chevrolet Impala
- Big, Safe, Utilitarian
- Dealership ONLY for necessary items
124Other things to think about
- Remember that finding a car One Owner or from a
person whose judgment you trust is your best
asset in looking for a car - Almost any car in excellent condition is going to
be a better choice than a more reputable car that
has been abused
125Finding a Mechanic
- New car dealerships may have the latest
diagnostic equipment and lots of well-trained
mechanics, BUT that doesnt guarantee they are
good at fixing cars! - Mechanics without a franchise endorsement can
only remain in operation if they do good work!
126Mechanics
- Auto Repair Service 965 Pierce Butler Route, St
Paul 651-487-1431 Not far from CTC - Campus Auto Repair 630 Washington Ave Se (612)
378-0794 - Phalen Park Auto Repair (Kuans) 1383 Arcade St.
St. Paul, MN 55106 651-771-1590 - Midwest Vee 259 Como Avenue Saint Paul, Minnesota
55103 651 489-8853 (specialists for European cars)
127Auto Body Repair
- Raymond Auto Body, Inc. 1075 Pierce Butler Route
St. Paul, MN 55104 651 488-0588 - This recommendation is based on responses sent
in to Twin City Checkbook Magazine
128Sales, Auto Body, and Mechanic Repair
- Ascend Auto
- 99 Hyacinth Ave St Paul 55117
- 651-340-8635
- Hmong family business (Christians and very nice
people). Cars are bought salvage and repaired
and sold.
129Other Issues to Consider
- The Law is the LAW do not bring a casual
attitude to the rules of the road you must
always have a licensed driver sitting next to you
when on a learners permit. And all the rules
apply to you even when nobody else is watching. ?
130Other issuesthe Impound Lot
- If you dont know the parking rules of the city,
beware! - Fees 172 (Mpls) 208 (St Paul) for tickets and
towing PLUS any storage fees - http//www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/snow/parking-info.
asp for rules in MPLS. - http//www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/depts/publicworks/snowp
low.html for St Paul rules
131Other Issuesyour owners manual
- Read it!
- You might also want to find a general book on
cars to get you started - (I knew a student who put too much air in his
tiresthey blew up on the highway going to
Duluth. This wouldnt have happened if he would
have read the owners manual!)
132I hope this presentation was helpful
- Your greatest resource in finding a good car is
the recommendations of friends and classmates who
have some experience with cars - If you have an American host family, you can ask
them as well
133Good Luck Shopping!
(I think this Lamborghini costs more than your
education!)