Title: MGA Renewable Electricity, Advanced Coal and Carbon Storage Advisory Group Transmission Subgroup Mee
1MGA Renewable Electricity, Advanced Coal and
Carbon Storage Advisory GroupTransmission
Subgroup Meeting 1 Summary
- June 12, 2008
- Washington, DC
2Participants and Observers Present
- Mike Bull, Wind on the Wires
- Mike McNalley, DTE Energy
- Terry Grove, CAPX 2020 and Great River Energy
- Clair Moeller, Midwest ISO
- David Hadley, Midwest ISO
- Kristine Schmidt, Xcel Energy
- Natalie McIntire, American Wind Energy
Association - Nathaniel Baer, Iowa Environmental Council
- Geoff Matthews, Edison Mission
- Larry Johnston, Southern MN Municipal Power
Agency - Mike Stuart, Wisconsin Public Power, Inc.
- Beth Soholt, Wind on the Wires
- Julie Voeck, American Transmission Company
- Kurt Simonsen, Manitoba Department of Energy,
Science and Technology - Rob Gramlich, American Wind Energy Association
- Tom Stanton, Michigan Public Service Commission
- Staff
- Wick Havens, Center for Climate Strategies
- Mike Gregerson, Great Plains Institute
3Introductions and Review of Agenda
- Mike Gregerson of the Great Plains Institute
welcome everyone and asked them to introduce
themselves. Mike reviewed the meeting objectives
and materials. - Brad Crabtree of Great Plains Institute provided
a brief overview of the MGA Energy Security and
Climate Stewardship Platform and Greenhouse Gas
Accord and described the advisory group process
for implementation of Summit outcomes. - Mike then introduced the resolution deliverables
and invited meeting participants to begin
discussing each one.
4Transmission Resolution Deliverable 1
- RESOLVED, that the scope of work for the working
group shall include, but not be limited to,
recommendations regarding the following
deliverables - identified partners, methodology and timeline for
conducting a state-by-state evaluation of
expected new megawatts of wind power development
through 2020, including interim megawatt targets,
the need for that growth to meet
state/provincial, Midwestern, and national RPS
goals, and corresponding needed transmission
infrastructure
5Discussion of Deliverable 1
- MISO has sent a data request to LSEs to get a
better sense of how they are interpreting
requirements for new generation - How much of which fuel type by when
- Responses by next Thursday projects identified
within a year - Only went to states with legislative mandates
(MN, IA, WI and IL). Will look regionally from a
siting standpoint to include the Dakotas.
100,000 MW discussion scares some folks - Given national discussions, there is a view that
the Midwest needs to produce a third of the
national commitmentabout a 100,000 MW - Challenge of parochialism. Can we get beyond the
approach of requiring the bulk of new wind
generation to be located within a given
jurisdiction? Uncertainty about this, both
political and legal. - MISO is addressing this through
scenarioslocal-local, local-regional and
regional-regional. Participants expressed support
for this approach. - MB hydro additions 200 by 2012, 640 by 2017-18,
1260 by 2021, in addition to 1,000 MW of wind by
2017-2018 - Modeling challenge The Joint Coordinated System
Plan (JCSP) will help address the seams issues
for modeling beyond the MISO footprint to
determine impacts on transmission
6Defining Deliverable 1
- Need to define the output
- Start with specifying the number of MWhrs, then
overlay that with state-specific requirements and
siting constraints (e.g. how much must be within
a particular jurisdiction) - Identify the gap between jurisdictional
obligations and the MGA goal. - Need to query the LSEs because their responses
will provide information on what they plan to
spend money on with regards to generation and
transmission - Important to include LSEs outside MISO but within
MGA footprint and request needs to come from
governors/premier to CEOs. LSEs are reluctant to
provide information, so approach through
governors will help. - There are ways to scale things to reduce
sensitivities about proving information. It will
be important to be very clear about the use of
the data. - MGA, unlike governors offices and PUC/PSCs, is
not subject to data practices requirements, which
will also help. - Agreed action work through MGA steering
committee of governors and premiers staff to
survey load serving entities (LSEs) in MGA
jurisdictions beyond MN, IA, WI and IL, which has
already received a survey from Midwest ISO.
Establish a subcommittee of this group to prepare
survey instrument for Steering Committee review. - Step 1 survey for inventory deliverable
- Step 2 include in the survey necessary data to
expand the scope of Midwest Transmission
Expansion Plan (MTEP) 09 to include the MGA
footprint (MTEP 09 is national, and the MGA
portion will be a regional look that accomplishes
deliverable one in the resolution and part of
deliverable 3) - Clair, Beth, Tom, Natalie, Julie? volunteered to
work with Mike Gregerson on review of the MISO
survey and finalize something - Mike to set up a conference call
- Group review of survey instrument following conf
call - Presentation of final survey instrument to
governors/premiers staff on July 22nd
7Discussion of Transmission Studies
- Annual publication of MISO transmission expansion
plan - Appendix A projects expected to go under
construction within 4 years - More exploratory investigations
- MTEP 06 looked at implications of RES
requirements on system - MTEP 08 will be the first to look at future
scenarios (four scenarios reference future/BAU,
environmental w/25 ton CO2, wind at 20 percent
in MISO, limited gas. Incorporates overlay plans
such as high voltage overlay) - MTEP 09 will include changed definitions for the
future scenarios, one being the JCSP that looks
at implications of DOE 20 percent plan in MISO.
Another is a limited transmission investment
future (assumes only short term investments due
to uncertainty). - Discussion of ancillary services and their costs.
Agreement that as wind penetration levels
increase, the costs of those ancillary services
increase. However, there are a number of
solutions to address this, and the grid will not
be managed at these higher levels in the same way
that it is managed today. Also, a robust
transmission system at regional scale facilitates
the ability to manage volatility/variability more
effectively at less cost. - Regional Generation Outlet StudyRGOS (MN, IA,
WI, IL). Purpose identify a minimum point that
we build to system-wide, regardless of the
operative scenario. Also, an attempt to model
the geographic dispersion of these systems to
provide some sense of the cost of siting
constraints. Helps get beyond the queue problem
by identifying major likely areas of
developmentrenewable energy zones--where
transmission can built in a build it and they
will come approach. - Will MISO have the political support to name
these renewable energy zones despite lacking
legal authority? - Should mesh with studies underway in CAPEX 2020
- Results for stakeholder review in April 2009,
finalization in fall of 09 - If other jurisdictions make RES/REO commitments,
an additional study could be done for them.
8CAPX 2020 Discussion
- 2016 Study Effort focused on this timeframe
because of MN REO commitments and need to meet
them - Can take renewable zone identification by MISO to
the project level. - 2025 Vision Study Minnesota 2025 goal shifts the
focus more to MISO level studies - As gaps in jurisdictional policy region-wide are
filled with RES/REO commitments, CAPX-like
efforts or MISO RGOS will be necessary in other
parts of the region
9DOE Study
- Conducted by NREL using WIND model
- 300 GW nationally, with distribution weighted
toward Midwest and less for Southeast - Worked with AEP on 765kv grid overlay to
accomplish the plan - Accompanied by costs and benefits analysis
- Challenge for building and sustaining support for
extra high voltage transmissionmust extend
beyond one governors term - Build-out needs to be region-wide to ensure
effectiveness and to justify investment
10Other Studies
- Need more background on the MI transmission study
from Tom. - Action Tom to share study with Mike Gregerson.
11Near-Term 2015 Target
- Concern raised about losing sight of 2015, as we
look at 2020. - Discussion that the MGA has established a 2015
target as well and that the 2020 evaluation could
and ought to assess degree to which we have or do
not have a 2015 gap between jurisdictional policy
commitments and the regional MGA target of 10
percent. - Agreement Evaluation for resolution deliverable
1 needs to correspond with each MGA target,
beginning in 2015 (i.e. what is actually expected
for MW development relative to the target and any
gap and what is needed in terms of the
transmission build-out).
12MB Hydro Discussion
- Grand bargain potential partnership with
Manitoba Hydro and wind. Hydro access in return
for load-following to help enable the large
expansions of wind contemplated under the MGA
targets - DC capacity would be important in such a scenario
for stability due to challenges of moving large
amounts of energy between generation and load
13Concluding Thursday Discussion
- You can plan forever, but you have to start
building stuff. Also, some of the smaller things
need to be in place to do the bigger things. In
other words, lower voltage transmission build-out
at the subregional level is needed to meet
earlier 2015 MGA target. However, this more
robust subregional system at lower voltage is
also necessary to have a reliable foundation for
eventual deployment of a 500-765 kW high voltage
capacity to move larger amounts of renewables
from west to east between MISO subregions and,
eventually, between MISO and regions to the east
and southeast. - Governors do not necessarily understand
transmission issues at this level, and we have a
teachable moment. - We will have to build new infrastructure that
will cost a lot of money (not just because of
wind, but for a lot of reasons). The planning
will help identify where we most efficiently
build that infrastructure to minimize that
expenditure. Higher level discussion and
political will is important, and the
governors/premier can play an important role
here. - Agreement - Early direction that governors can
get behind and build on - Regionalize CAPX experience beyond Minnesota,
Dakotas and SE Wisconsin by applying model to
other subregions within MISO and - Extend the Regional Geographic Outlet Study
approach beyond the four participating
jurisdictions (currently MN, IA, WI and IL)
14Deliverable 4 Cost Allocation and Recovery
- 4. key elements and next steps for developing a
transmission cost share and cost recovery
mechanism for the build-out of resource
transmission. (These efforts should take a fresh
look at cost-sharing methodologies, identifying
beneficiaries in a broad sense
sellers/developers, buyers/loads as well as jobs
and tax beneficiaries and the burdens borne by
different states, in order to develop an
equitable cost allocation mechanism. In addition,
these efforts should ensure any major expansion
plan permits equitable participating in the
ownership of improvements by each states
utilities/transmission companies, so that the
load serving needs of each state are properly
accounted for.)
15Cost Allocation and Recovery Discussion
- Midwest ISO tariff began in 1998. A license
plate tariff was set up in the absence of
agreement over cost allocation. Lost revenue was
recaptured through captive network customers. - Decision to revisit in six years with hint that
there might be a move to postage stamp approach.
Subsequent discussions failed to reach agreement. - Current cost sharing for reliability projects is
20 percent postage stamp, with 80 percent
premised on a power flow model. Four MISO
members have indicated that they may withdraw as
a result. - Big problem of whose investment, when some firms
have to share costs and pass them on to their
customers but their shareholders do not get a
return on their investment. Joint ownership of
assets in this case would help. Barriers are
primarily political. - The tariff is voluntary, so there is an effective
no-losers test. The threat of opt-out is real.
Concerns on the part of some members have
increased as discussions have expanded from 345
kV to 765 kV and potential costs have increased. - FERC has limited jurisdiction, and the states are
responsible here. Benefits of keeping firms in
the ISO are large for building out the
transmission system. Governors can help through
this advisory group process.
16Cost Allocation Discussion Continued
- Challenge that some ways to meet
governors/premiers targets might preclude system
choices for meeting national targets. You need to
site and permit 345 kV 8x to get to 765 kV
equivalent. - Need ability to take longer view of
benefitslonger than Regional Expansion Criteria
Benefits allows. - Issue that needs to be explored can a state
commission take into consideration the question
of public interest beyond their borders? Some
are precluded by statute from doing this. - Questions about feasibility came up and question
as to whether it is not just easier to negotiate
the really big projects across jurisdictions.
Proposal to circumscribe more narrowly the
criteria for projects that would me the regional
benefits test. - At minimum, where jurisdictional impediments to
regional benefits consideration, we ought to
change that. - Agreed Action Develop agreed model legislation
that would expand commission authorities, where
necessary, to enable them to consider public
benefits at regional scale. - Next step survey jurisdictional authorities.
Nathaniel, Tom and Beth will help GPI staff to
craft an info request of commissions. - Subsequent step draft model legislation for
steering committee review based survey results
and subgroup discussion - Agreed Action try to secure cost sharing
agreement at subregional level first (e.g. MN,
WI, IA), where greater commonality of need and
circumstances exist. This could then be expanded
to other subregions. - Feasible and helpful for meeting jurisdictional
policy requirements, but does not get us to the
inter-RTO 765 kV capacity expansion (e.g. moving
large amounts of wind from Midwest to New
England). - Joint ownership needs to be part of such a
package at the subregional level (CAPX model).
This may not be an option in some jurisdictions
like MI with ITC. - Questions to consider What does eastern portion
of the region look like? Who is the champion?
17Cost Allocation Discussion
- Agreed Action Framework or architecture of
subgroups final recommended work product should
tie together deliverables 1, 3 and 4 into single
package recommendation to the governors and
premier. - 1) Evaluation of new generation and transmission
needed to accommodate that new generation 2) the
regional transmission plan focused on required
high-voltage interstate network additions to
accomplish that transmission and 3) proposed
cost recovery mechanism/ownership structure to
facilitate financing it. - This generation is not just wind, but the whole
suite of new generation resources and
technologies needed to meet the MGA energy and
climate targets. There is tremendous value in a
robust transmission system to have the capacity
and flexibility to deploy generation and manage
cost-effective integration to meet the MGA goals.
18Draft Letter to FERC Re MISO Transmission Queue
Reform
- Subgroup participants and observers reviewed,
edited and agreed on a draft letter to the U.S.
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission for
consideration by governors and premiers. - The letter is included separately from this
meeting summary.
19Scheduling and Adjournment
- Transmission subgroup members agreed to have a
group conference call on Tue, July 8th from
10-noon Eastern/9-11 Central. - Subgroup members also agreed to have an in-person
transmission breakout discussion on Wed, July
30th in Dearborn, MI (Detroit airport). The
breakout session will be part of the day-long MGA
Renewable Electricity, Advanced Coal and Carbon
Capture Advisory Group meeting, and the breakout
will be held in the afternoon. - The meeting was adjourned.